Favorite food......hmmmm. Steak Frites.
I am Australian so I love all things grilled on a BBQ.
Oooh... good choice. Carbs and protein are always a great combo.
Beverage - currently any sort of refreshing drink. It's hot in Austin.
I loved numbers and sales and I figured that RevOps was a great combination of both.
I think that in today's sales world, data is becoming more and more important.
Hi Janelle - enablement, like RevOps, involves bringing together the go-to-market engine.
Seismic works really well for sellers around onboarding, productivity, effectiveness etc but the beauty is also in the handshake to marketing - to see what content works in the field and driving ROI around marketing content creation and effectiveness.
For us, RevOps covers all GTM Ops (processes, tools, people, data/BI)+ enablement
I believe this is important for efficiency. There should be consistency across key processes (like lead to cash) - that cover multiple departments.
A silo does not own something like a lead, the company owns it. I believe that's why companies are putting more into RevOps to ensure that the engine makes things move smoothly across the teams.
Shim, it depends a lot for me if the use case is different or not in different industries. Do you need to create different marketing messaging? Is for example your product more helpful in regulated industries. And so forth. That might shape your decisions. If the marketing and sales motion is essentially the same regardless of industry then I don't think you need an industry specific lense.
Use case = Needs to hire developers. So pretty much most companies.
Great point about marketing messaging.
So from a:
Fit - Defined by use case above
Intent - Defines prioritisation of the acc
Relationship - This is the grey area and aiming to understand if Industry can add value here
Engagement - Interacting with marketing channels and also could be benefitted by an industry lense
I also think knowing the market and determining their cyclical nature supports more accurate revenue forecasting and also more effective targeting
Bit on the fence here as industry may support this but also may be a distraction / noise. 🙅
I think you want to be laser focused, so if the industry makes it more complex then I wouldn't worry about it initially.
Thank you, Toby 🌻
I have found at least in SaaS that people talk about a core marketing platform (automation e.g. Marketo), a core CRM platform & a core CS platform (e.g. Gainsight). I believe RevOps should own those platforms and the key platforms that integrate into those systems as it relates to the GTM audience. For us that is something like 70 apps, but the core ones are conversational intelligence, intent/enrichment, engagement and, of course, enablement.
You won't find someone who can do everything in ops, so it needs to be stage appropriate. The first few ops hires should be strong in the systems, etc and understand the sales process. As you scale I would add someone who understands higher level strategy (comp, territories etc) and as quickly as possible a BI/data analytics resource.
This is something I see a lot of people struggle with. There are a number of resources available (online) that talk about ratios of ops people to sellers/internal customers (places like the sales ops institute, SBI, some of the other bigger consulting firms etc) that can help. I do think the best way is to really focus on some high value (visible) activities to demonstrate value. A lot of ops work, especially early, is under the hood and in the background. I encourage people to find time for some visible quick wins (dashboards, SLA improvement etc etc) to encourage further investment.
Red wine 😉
Seriously, I recommend creating a demand management approach, and clear communication back to stakeholders. I see RevOps becoming more like DevOps. Organize the work into sprints, work out what can go into each sprint, make sure everyone understands what will happen and not happen and as part of that carve out a bit of time for the ad hoc stuff but being hyper organized and thinking like a DevOps team helps a lot in my experience.
A big part of this is creating the forums/cadence to be involved. For example - typically rev ops will own the cadence of things like forecast calls, pipeline calls etc. Set up must win deal calls, deal strategy calls etc also, and by definition then you have a seat at the table for those things.
"Facts kill opinions"
By having the data, you have the right to present the insights that the data shows.
I am also constantly challenging my team with "so what?". By moving to recommending action, they are leading.
Don't just present something and ask for opinions.
I’m putting that on a t-shirt.
I used to have a t-shirt that said "If you're not living on the edge, you're taking up too much space", but "Facts kill opinions" is probably better for my current job.
For the sake of the company of course 😁
So in my mind even Sales Ops includes territory planning, sales commission etc. This is typically where RevOps starts. I would include forecast/pipeline for sure as well as core GTM systems. Deal Ops/deal desk for me is critical also to be involved in the daily rhythm of the business.
I view Rev Ops as the pit crew of a Formula One team.
Think about the key things that are necessary for the GTM engine to run smoothly, and involve yourself in all of those.
So KPI development to ensure alignment would also fall under the purview
Yes KPI development. SLA development (e.g. between demand gen and inbound or whatever). That's why I think enablement should either be a part of Rev ops or very closely aligned - key KPIs around onboarding, ramp, effectiveness, etc. too.
This is the benefit of RevOps - holding all parties accountable and aligned around agreed KPIs or hand-offs, etc.
Yeah, I have seen that too. For me it's all about balance but I do believe that first and foremost RevOps exists to make the GTM team work more effectively. So "teaching" people how to cleanly enter data is one thing, but showing them the insights or value add they get back by doing so is the right way to do it. For example, we recently rolled out detailed account planning. The process of doing an account plan is a bit painful, but we made it also beneficial by giving them a tool that helped them do customer org charts really easily, automatically update Salesforce while doing it etc. And the process of account review means they get additional executive support. So we asked them to do things in a more detailed way than they did before, but we returned value to them.
For sales people in particular it’s always easy to orient your thinking around demonstrating to them how you will help them make money by doing things a certain way.
Yep - in the monthly enablement meetings we share win stories, highlight how people have won (that also highlights that they did things we want, like value selling or using a particular tool or whatever). We share leaderboards and so forth also but typically the way we share success of people "winning by doing it the right way" we use the enablement meetings.
We also frequently have sellers or marketers present our work. e.g. A seller will share how they used an intent dashboard to win a deal
Or a marketer will show improvements in MQL-Demo and link it to the process we implemented.
I think sometimes we get so focused on finished items on our checklist that we forget to celebrate the wins.
So my marketing ops leader is considered part of marketing leadership. Services ops is the same, sales ops is the same etc. They join all the respective leadership meetings.
I call it "internal marketing". if you launch a new dashboard, what is the point if you don't actually "launch" it visibly.
We use our own product of course to provide updates on things from Ops, enablement, etc.
And it's very much worth showing people what is going on. We publish calendars of what is happening.We talk about what will be done in what sprint and we share statistics to support the value of all of these things.
Both - if we roll out a new tool we get whoever was on point to do all the announcements, etc.
As you pointed out not all ops people like the limelight, but I don't think you can say ‘thank you’ (both publicly and privately) enough.
Well we have a great tool that helps people with learning content 🙂
All of my team have personal development goals also
And we make sure that we fund that.
If anyone wants to be certified on relevant tools etc that should be a given in my view.
I also encourage my team to spend "a day in the life" of their stakeholders regularly
And also to speak regularly to (real) external customers, attend industry events, etc.
It's really about understanding how people do things - e.g. if they want to do a quote, what does the seller actually do and then they can figure out if something is wrong with how we present CPQ, or if we can reduce a few steps, etc.
It's just a boost of empathy... to see everything they are balancing in their job and how things have such an impact on how easily or difficult they maneuver through the systems, etc.
It also builds rapport with internal stakeholders, too.
I wish I was better at analytics, like actually being able to use SQL.
So I would have pushed myself to be better at data science/analytics.
That is increasing in importance, and especially in smaller teams having that skill is gold.
It's such a big skillset in the market right now. It's SO hard to find people who have the skill and I think it's something that's not going away any time soon even with the point and click tools out there.
Toby, thank you SO much for your time and sharing your wealth of knowledge. Is there any advice you'd like to give to people who haven't made the leap to RevOps yet or are coming from a siloed operations team?
Find the quick wins that demonstrate RevOps as a horizontal across the business rather than individual ops silos. Take an end to end process (like order to cash) and optimize it. Take the lead on organizing GTM data and bring insights together that are useful for marketing/sales/CS (e.g. a use case like a customer 360).
Thanks for having me, Camela, always a pleasure to chat. I must admit I haven't typed this much in an hour for a little while 🙂
I bet! You earned your 🍷 today!!
🙂 Thank you. Have a great day. If anyone wants to chat separately of course please feel free to hit me up. I am always happy to lend a confidential ear or help if anyone has some questions on Ops or anything else
They say more money, more problems, but just think of all the operational issues you could solve... Negotiating more budget is a must-have skill!
Toby Carrington started in Finance, climbing all the way to CFO. His empathy for salespeople and aptitude for numbers made RevOps the perfect fit.
Angela Earl, VP of Marketing at RFPIO
Christine Whitehead, Vice President, Operations at Replayz
Brian Vass, Vice President, Revenue Operations at Paycor