Revenue Operations

Unicorn-Level RevOps Insights

Shouts out and special thanks to Andy Mowat, CEO at Gated, a free solution that challenges unknown senders to donate to reach you. 

Leading the questions was our Content Strategist Sebastien van Heyningen, President at the RevOps Consulting Agency Central Metric.

Seb van Heyningen (RevOps Co-op)

Let’s do this! Thanks for being brave enough to face our community in an AMA, Andy.

A bit of background on our guest:

  • Andy is a serial entrepreneur, advisor, and investor with over 18 years of experience in growing technology companies, with a focus on Marketing and Revenue Operations.
  • He knows a thing or two about designing a Buyer Journey that is focused on its subject: The Buyer
  • He’s also scaled 3 Unicorns so he understands what it takes to go from great idea to scalable business (Culture Amp, Box, Upwork (Elance))
  • Most recently, Andy is building Gated to fix email for both buyers and sellers and to do some good for the world along the way.

Come with all of your questions on

  • Process design
  • Building and scaling an Ops team
  • Anything else you can think of around those topics.

All members are encouraged to jump in and ask questions. We’ve got a few that were submitted ahead of time and participation is highly encouraged!

Robert Bearce

Andy, I work at a company with very little process documentation or intentional process design metrics. I'm currently trying to, from my individual support contributor role, document and suggest intentional process design setups. What would your advice be on how to approach the value add and what steps would you take on reviewing and setting up process documentation and design in an organization without it?

Andy Mowat 

Great questions... I’d say you need to focus on impact over documentation, initially.

Prioritization is critical. Here is a good resource: The power of making (business) resources finite

If you try to catch every ball and document everything you are being reactive. This article and also this one talk about how to shift to a proactive mindset - Ensure your Ops team has the right capacity (Chapter 5: RevOps Handbook)

Robert Bearce

Awesome! Thank you for those resources and the reminder to pivot to proactive intentionality.

Andy Mowat

You bet.

Mark Laurence Stein

I'm in this position too, so great to hear. Robert - would be great to connect and share notes.

Seb van Heyningen (RevOps Co-op)

Andy - Got a question right off the bat! The community is engaged, haha. I usually like to start these more generally with a question that I ask everyone: What is your best definition for “RevOps”?

Andy Mowat 

Great one... This is where I get to get on my soapbox.

Here's from my handbook: GTM Operations is sometimes referred to as Revenue Operations but because that term can refer just to Sales Operations (or in some cases to Collections;) I prefer the GTM Operations term which clearly includes all Operations teams that optimize customer-facing teams (sales, marketing, customer success, support).

I actually think RevOps is a term that can't be defined because too many SOPs teams alone use it.

I tend to prefer GTM ops, but I know I've lost that battle. ;)

Seb van Heyningen (RevOps Co-op)

Soap box away! Oh wow. I have never seen that perspective before. And I'm struggling to come up with a strong argument against it. GTM Ops is more obviously inclusive of those functions that RevOps leaders now say they support (Sales, Marketing, Success, Finance, Product).

You may be losing the battle, but you have a new convert!

Andy Mowat 

Hahahah ask a lot of the top thinkers... They will admit they struggle too with, "What does RevOops mean?”  Rosalyn Santa Elena - got my back here? :)

Seb van Heyningen (RevOps Co-op)

This is true! We haven’t yet decided what it means. (and maybe we never will?)

Andy Mowat 

I don't fight it anymore but it should be GTM Ops if we are talking about cross-functional ops. To me... RevOps is just a sexier name for SOPs (most of the time!).

Seb van Heyningen (RevOps Co-op)

I've seen that out in the world, too! (RevOps being seen as Sales Ops+). I'm going to start name dropping GTM Ops to see what people say.

Andy Mowat 

It's hard to fight against the tide;)

Rosalyn Santa Elena

I typically say "Revenue Operations, or GTM Operations”, as we used to call it... LOL 

Andy Mowat knows me so well -- we are both "old school" Ops folks before it was cool to be in Ops!

Andy Mowat 

Btw folks... feel free to follow me / connect with me on Linkedin (as long as you are RevOps;).... i love knowing this community since it’s where i grew up https://www.linkedin.com/in/amowat/

Tony Yang

Ahh, buyer journey - a topic that's near and dear to my heart, and something I've been heavily focused on for the past year. Thanks for doing this Andy Mowat! 

First, I'd like to know your definition of Buyer Journey. I've talked to many people about this topic and some think of it as synonymous to their marketing/sales funnel, while others think of it as the actual flow of engagement with your brand (down to the click level across your website, for example). Others think of it as the buyers' decision making process. What are your thoughts?

Andy Mowat 

Tony - I was discussing this yesterday with Evan Pope on our team...I think the term is badly defined.

i'd say there are two terms:

  • Buyer Journey - This looks from the seller perspective and is old-school
  • Customer Journey - To me basically the same thing but from the buyer’s perspective. How do they want to learn, engage, buy..... This is where I get excited about the changes coming. Some neat companies/trends:
  • PLG - is changing everything
  • Testbox - Company i invested in... gives buyers full test instances for free of software to own the demo experience.
  • Other demo companies like Reprise / Demostack (i'm also a fan)
  • Gated - allows buyers to decide who they want to hear from

Also here is a fun article i wrote on buying from the buyer perspective -  3 win-win questions you need to ask when purchasing SaaS tools

Tony Yang

Awesome, thanks! I'll check out the article.

JSR

Andy Mowat, thanks for the AMA sesh!

  • What are the top 3 things you’d audit at a new company to ensure their buyer journey is set up for success?
  • Also (since I’m looking for a new job) what are the top 3 things you’d look for in a new recruit to execute on some of the examples you gave above?

Andy Mowat 

  1. Marketing - Eliminate the crappy nurture emails.  Rethink content and top of funnel engagement completely
  2. Handoff from Sales to CS - Make it Awesome
  3. Bring Support + CS + AM together to work as 1 team

Andy Mowat 

I find that in ~5 mins I can tell if someone knows their stuff. I tend to hire based on how people think vs. what they know. Here is a fun article on that Defining success for your Operations team.

George Verey

Hi Andy, I'm starting a new role at a company next week as Dir, RevOps. What things should I be looking at in the first six months and how should I be looking at building out my team? Also, what things can I do to show leadership how effective RevOps will be for the organization?

Andy Mowat

Have you seen my handbook George Verey? Hiring a Revenue Operations Team (Chapter 1: RevOps Handbook) 

btw.. Congrats on the new role!

George Verey

Thanks Andy! I'll take a look at it.

Seb van Heyningen (RevOps Co-op)

These questions are coming quick and fast! I want to make sure we get to those that were asked before we started.

Here's one from Ethan White - “How do you work with stakeholders who insist on focusing on their individual silo as opposed to unifying the whole?"

Andy Mowat 

BOOM - Engaging Stakeholders in Operations Success (Chapter 4: RevOps Handbook)

Seb van Heyningen (RevOps Co-op)

Look at that! Andy is ahead of the curve on this topic and has already published something helpful about it.

Andy Mowat 

Great question, Ethan.

Ethan White

100% agree with all that, and it meshes with what I've done. Thanks Andy!

Seb van Heyningen (RevOps Co-op)

More from the community - "What is the out-of-the-box necessary information you need to start building a high-level buyer journey? What are the deliverables and data/reporting needed to start you on your creative process for architecting the buyer journey?"

Andy Mowat

Good question - Super broad. It really depends on your sales motion, ACV, marketing approach, pricing model.....

The answer will vary widely depending on that.

Seb van Heyningen (RevOps Co-op)

Let's say this is a typical B2B motion (SDR -> AE -> CS) with an ACV of $120k. With some paid ads and a Per User Per Month + Implementation pricing model.

Andy Mowat

Here's how i'd attack it:

  • Marketing - How do your prospects first encounter you? How do you capture their info? 
  • Nurture - this is where MOST COMPANIES fail. You can't just keep sending them emails from a MAP.  How do you engage them? Some strategies I've found work well are around communities/events. Here are my best tactics
  • https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/power-community-saas-particularly-challenging-times-andy-mowat/
  • How do you identify interest/intent and engage with sales and how do you iterate rapidly via data on this (the "Request a demo" is easy... how about the ones who haven't).   Here I'm a HUGE fan of MadKudu (disclosure: I've invested....)
  • What does your early sales process look like.... how do you improve the demo experience
  • How do you make negotiation/close a better experience via pricing, contracting, security reviews .....
  • CS Handover
  • Onboarding - Most people don't have clear checklist for when to take out of onboarding
  • Executive Business Reviews

Tony Yang

Nice! Thank you.

Seb van Heyningen (RevOps Co-op)

Amazing.

And another question - "Are you going to actually draw out a customer journey? Where are you going to do it? Can this be tracked in a CRM?"

Andy Mowat 

I think a Lucid(chart) is a great way to get everyone aligned. Shout out to Brandon Bussey.

 Seb van Heyningen (RevOps Co-op)

Lucid is a great solution for this! I think it should be drawn out as well. The visual helps.

Andy Mowat 

I think if the customer journey is being iterated on rapidly enough you DO NOT want to track in CRM. if you are PLG product analytics/DW is core.

if you are SaaS start with a Lucid.

Evan Pope 

 ➕💯

Jess Cortez has built some 🔥 customer journeys in Lucid.

Tony Yang

Jess Cortez, are you willing to share examples of customer journeys that you've built with Lucid?

Andy, what do you think are the most important characteristics or points of interest to identify in a buyer/customer journey? And ultimately, what are we trying to understand from this exercise?

Andy Mowat 

To me, you need to think from a buyer perspective. What is their experience like?

I've always had 3 goals for my RevOps team

  • Revenue Optimization
  • Customer/buyer experience
  • Efficiency

In that order.

I'm not 100% sure of your question, Tony - are you asking about the points in the journey (I hit on that one above - at least the top 3 i'd focus on first), or something different?

Tony Yang

My question is related to Seb’s earlier question on how to draw out a customer journey - I'd love your take on "what" needs to be drawn out. From a PLG perspective, it sounds like core activities within the product experience that ultimately leads to paid subscription/purchase. What about non-PLG marketing/sales motions?

Andy Mowat

Gotcha... I just answered that in another thread I think.. Will tag you there.

Robert Bearce

What would be the qualities you'd assemble for a new RevOps team? What existing experiences in house would you look for if a RevOps team doesn't already exist?

Andy Mowat

Great one, Robert. Check these two out:

Defining success for your Operations team

Hiring a Revenue Operations Team (Chapter 1: RevOps Handbook)

Robert Bearce

Sweet! Will do. Thanks!

JSR

Andy, I see you’re a prolific writer! Would be interesting to learn if you think there are any issues that the RevOps community has somewhat ignored or learned to deal with.

What RevOps topic are you considering writing about next?

Andy Mowat

I believe data is going to change revops completely.

We built an amazing data stack for GTM data at Culture Amp led by one of my team. It changed the game.

I think every GTM SaaS system within 5 years will be built on top of the data warehouse instead.

That's why i'm so excited about a few different groups of companies

  • Scratchpad - reinventing the UX for CRM
  • Data companies like DBT, Syncari, Census, Fivetran
  • People rebuilding SaaS on DW - i.e. Inflection

JSR

I completely agree! It was amazing to see types of insights you can pull when you layer data tools.

I partnered with the data team to connect Outreach to Snowflake via custom API integration and then built live Tableau dashboards that revealed granular BDR data that was impossible to do with Salesforce.

Andy Mowat 

When you have lived in a RevOps world with amazing data models + visualization tools, you are SO MUCH MORE influential as you are bringing data insights and not just doing systems work.

JSR

Exactly! And when you get to the point where you can drill down into that data and attach ML to unlock trends… boy, you’re really living in the future.

Andy Mowat

Love this.

Andy Mowat 

keanu - yeah

Nate Odell (Scratchpad)

Appreciate the shoutout, Andy 🙏

Andy Mowat 

You bet Nate....Just geeked out with Pouyan yesterday.

Nate Odell (Scratchpad)

Awesome man. Love it. Exciting things are happening. 🙂

Andy Mowat

If you haven't yet, check out www.gated.com. We built it for RevOps people flooded by vendor emails..... tons of people in this community are already users ... 

https://www.gated.com/foryou/revops - Oh yea.. It is 100% free for users.

Thanks everyone... signing off... if you know me... you know i like a great keanu meme

Seb van Heyningen (RevOps Co-op)

The PERFECT way to close. Thank you for your time and energy, Andy!

Andy Mowat 

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