Let’s do this! Thanks for being brave enough to face our community in an AMA, Andy.
A bit of background on our guest:
Come with all of your questions on
All members are encouraged to jump in and ask questions. We’ve got a few that were submitted ahead of time and participation is highly encouraged!
Andy, I work at a company with very little process documentation or intentional process design metrics. I'm currently trying to, from my individual support contributor role, document and suggest intentional process design setups. What would your advice be on how to approach the value add and what steps would you take on reviewing and setting up process documentation and design in an organization without it?
Great questions... I’d say you need to focus on impact over documentation, initially.
Prioritization is critical. Here is a good resource: The power of making (business) resources finite
If you try to catch every ball and document everything you are being reactive. This article and also this one talk about how to shift to a proactive mindset - Ensure your Ops team has the right capacity (Chapter 5: RevOps Handbook)
Awesome! Thank you for those resources and the reminder to pivot to proactive intentionality.
I'm in this position too, so great to hear. Robert - would be great to connect and share notes.
Andy - Got a question right off the bat! The community is engaged, haha. I usually like to start these more generally with a question that I ask everyone: What is your best definition for “RevOps”?
Great one... This is where I get to get on my soapbox.
Here's from my handbook: GTM Operations is sometimes referred to as Revenue Operations but because that term can refer just to Sales Operations (or in some cases to Collections;) I prefer the GTM Operations term which clearly includes all Operations teams that optimize customer-facing teams (sales, marketing, customer success, support).
I actually think RevOps is a term that can't be defined because too many SOPs teams alone use it.
I tend to prefer GTM ops, but I know I've lost that battle. ;)
Soap box away! Oh wow. I have never seen that perspective before. And I'm struggling to come up with a strong argument against it. GTM Ops is more obviously inclusive of those functions that RevOps leaders now say they support (Sales, Marketing, Success, Finance, Product).
You may be losing the battle, but you have a new convert!
Hahahah ask a lot of the top thinkers... They will admit they struggle too with, "What does RevOops mean?” Rosalyn Santa Elena - got my back here? :)
This is true! We haven’t yet decided what it means. (and maybe we never will?)
I don't fight it anymore but it should be GTM Ops if we are talking about cross-functional ops. To me... RevOps is just a sexier name for SOPs (most of the time!).
I've seen that out in the world, too! (RevOps being seen as Sales Ops+). I'm going to start name dropping GTM Ops to see what people say.
It's hard to fight against the tide;)
I typically say "Revenue Operations, or GTM Operations”, as we used to call it... LOL
Andy Mowat knows me so well -- we are both "old school" Ops folks before it was cool to be in Ops!
Btw folks... feel free to follow me / connect with me on Linkedin (as long as you are RevOps;).... i love knowing this community since it’s where i grew up https://www.linkedin.com/in/amowat/
Ahh, buyer journey - a topic that's near and dear to my heart, and something I've been heavily focused on for the past year. Thanks for doing this Andy Mowat!
First, I'd like to know your definition of Buyer Journey. I've talked to many people about this topic and some think of it as synonymous to their marketing/sales funnel, while others think of it as the actual flow of engagement with your brand (down to the click level across your website, for example). Others think of it as the buyers' decision making process. What are your thoughts?
Tony - I was discussing this yesterday with Evan Pope on our team...I think the term is badly defined.
i'd say there are two terms:
Also here is a fun article i wrote on buying from the buyer perspective - 3 win-win questions you need to ask when purchasing SaaS tools
Awesome, thanks! I'll check out the article.
Andy Mowat, thanks for the AMA sesh!
I find that in ~5 mins I can tell if someone knows their stuff. I tend to hire based on how people think vs. what they know. Here is a fun article on that Defining success for your Operations team.
Hi Andy, I'm starting a new role at a company next week as Dir, RevOps. What things should I be looking at in the first six months and how should I be looking at building out my team? Also, what things can I do to show leadership how effective RevOps will be for the organization?
Have you seen my handbook George Verey? Hiring a Revenue Operations Team (Chapter 1: RevOps Handbook)
btw.. Congrats on the new role!
Thanks Andy! I'll take a look at it.
These questions are coming quick and fast! I want to make sure we get to those that were asked before we started.
Here's one from Ethan White - “How do you work with stakeholders who insist on focusing on their individual silo as opposed to unifying the whole?"
Look at that! Andy is ahead of the curve on this topic and has already published something helpful about it.
Great question, Ethan.
100% agree with all that, and it meshes with what I've done. Thanks Andy!
More from the community - "What is the out-of-the-box necessary information you need to start building a high-level buyer journey? What are the deliverables and data/reporting needed to start you on your creative process for architecting the buyer journey?"
Good question - Super broad. It really depends on your sales motion, ACV, marketing approach, pricing model.....
The answer will vary widely depending on that.
Let's say this is a typical B2B motion (SDR -> AE -> CS) with an ACV of $120k. With some paid ads and a Per User Per Month + Implementation pricing model.
Here's how i'd attack it:
Nice! Thank you.
And another question - "Are you going to actually draw out a customer journey? Where are you going to do it? Can this be tracked in a CRM?"
I think a Lucid(chart) is a great way to get everyone aligned. Shout out to Brandon Bussey.
Lucid is a great solution for this! I think it should be drawn out as well. The visual helps.
I think if the customer journey is being iterated on rapidly enough you DO NOT want to track in CRM. if you are PLG product analytics/DW is core.
if you are SaaS start with a Lucid.
Jess Cortez has built some 🔥 customer journeys in Lucid.
Jess Cortez, are you willing to share examples of customer journeys that you've built with Lucid?
Andy, what do you think are the most important characteristics or points of interest to identify in a buyer/customer journey? And ultimately, what are we trying to understand from this exercise?
To me, you need to think from a buyer perspective. What is their experience like?
I've always had 3 goals for my RevOps team
In that order.
I'm not 100% sure of your question, Tony - are you asking about the points in the journey (I hit on that one above - at least the top 3 i'd focus on first), or something different?
My question is related to Seb’s earlier question on how to draw out a customer journey - I'd love your take on "what" needs to be drawn out. From a PLG perspective, it sounds like core activities within the product experience that ultimately leads to paid subscription/purchase. What about non-PLG marketing/sales motions?
Gotcha... I just answered that in another thread I think.. Will tag you there.
What would be the qualities you'd assemble for a new RevOps team? What existing experiences in house would you look for if a RevOps team doesn't already exist?
Great one, Robert. Check these two out:
Sweet! Will do. Thanks!
Andy, I see you’re a prolific writer! Would be interesting to learn if you think there are any issues that the RevOps community has somewhat ignored or learned to deal with.
What RevOps topic are you considering writing about next?
I believe data is going to change revops completely.
We built an amazing data stack for GTM data at Culture Amp led by one of my team. It changed the game.
I think every GTM SaaS system within 5 years will be built on top of the data warehouse instead.
That's why i'm so excited about a few different groups of companies
I completely agree! It was amazing to see types of insights you can pull when you layer data tools.
I partnered with the data team to connect Outreach to Snowflake via custom API integration and then built live Tableau dashboards that revealed granular BDR data that was impossible to do with Salesforce.
When you have lived in a RevOps world with amazing data models + visualization tools, you are SO MUCH MORE influential as you are bringing data insights and not just doing systems work.
Exactly! And when you get to the point where you can drill down into that data and attach ML to unlock trends… boy, you’re really living in the future.
keanu - yeah
Appreciate the shoutout, Andy 🙏
You bet Nate....Just geeked out with Pouyan yesterday.
Awesome man. Love it. Exciting things are happening. 🙂
If you haven't yet, check out www.gated.com. We built it for RevOps people flooded by vendor emails..... tons of people in this community are already users ...
https://www.gated.com/foryou/revops - Oh yea.. It is 100% free for users.
Thanks everyone... signing off... if you know me... you know i like a great keanu meme
The PERFECT way to close. Thank you for your time and energy, Andy!
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